How Chinese Medicine Supports Fertility, Menopause, And Natural Beauty with Maureen McLaughlin, L.Ac., Dipl.OM

Looking for a grounded way to feel better in a world that never slows down? We welcome board-certified acupuncturist and Chinese herbalist Maureen McLaughlin to share how Chinese medicine helps women navigate fertility, perimenopause, menopause, stress, and natural beauty without losing themselves in the process. From that first intake to tongue and pulse reading, Maureen explains how a personalized plan—acupuncture, herbs, and simple lifestyle shifts—can restore energy, improve sleep, and ease hormonal symptoms.

We dig into fertility care step by step: what changes in each cycle phase, how herbs nourish blood or move stagnation, and when to pair acupuncture with IUI or IVF. For menopause, Maureen offers practical options for hot flashes, night sweats, insomnia, anxiety, and low libido, blending Chinese formulas with smart nutrition and supplements. You’ll hear why weekly sessions become a sanctuary for deep rest and nervous system repair, especially during the holiday season.

Curious about cosmetic acupuncture? Maureen breaks down how micro-stimulus boosts collagen and elastin for natural lift and brightness, why body points matter for lasting results, the typical 10-session course, and key contraindications. We also talk red and blue light therapy, realistic expectations, and how to know when to combine or avoid injectables. Above all, this conversation reframes beauty as the byproduct of balance: clear boundaries, better sleep, hydrated tissues, and a calmer mind that shows on your skin.

If you’re ready to feel steady, supported, and more like yourself—press play. Then share this with a friend who needs a gentle reset, subscribe for new episodes, and leave a review to help others find the show. Your journey matters, and we’re here to walk it with you.

Connect with Maureen on IG @maureenmclaughlinacu & find out how you can work with her at Yahara River Acupuncture

Chapters

• 0:09 Welcome To Modern Science Collective
• 1:33 Meet Maureen: Credentials And Focus
• 4:43 Discovering Chinese Medicine And Early Healing
• 11:17 Myths, Needles, And Why It Works
• 18:40 Diagnosis Through Tongue And Pulse
• 23:59 Modern Stress And Women’s Energy
• 28:17 Qi Flow Explained Simply
• 31:55 Rising Cycle Issues And Endocrine Disruption
• 35:54 Fertility Support: Strategy By Cycle Phase
• 42:01 Tools: Moxa, Heat, Laser, And More
• 45:26 Menopause Relief With Herbs And Acupuncture
• 50:05 Cosmetic Acupuncture: Why And How
• 54:42 Treatment Course, Maintenance, And Results
• 1:00:00 Safety, Contraindications, And Pairing With Aesthetics

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:09

Hi, I'm Lizzie.

SPEAKER_01: 0:10

And I'm Nikki. Together we welcome you to the Modern Science Collective Podcast, a space where we explore holistic living, spiritual alignment, and personal growth.

SPEAKER_00: 0:20

Each week, we'll share conversations, practices, and wisdom. Help you live with more joy, practice, and connection.

SPEAKER_01: 0:28

Modern mind connects.

SPEAKER_02: 1:33

Plus, we're joined by Maureen McLaughlin, a board-certified acupuncturist and expert in Chinese medicine for a beautiful conversation on how, as women, we can balance our energy, restore harmony through wisdom and acupuncture, herbs, and holistic living.

SPEAKER_00: 1:48

And as always, you'll find two guided practice episodes designed to help you anchor the teachings. One for grounding and protection, and one for heart-centered gratitude.

SPEAKER_02: 1:58

Wherever you're listening from, these episodes are here to help you move through the holidays with intention, connection, and inner peace. Let's step into November together. Rooted, present, and whole. Interview today with my acupuncturist that I've been with for several years, Maureen. I am very excited for you to be here. I've worked with Maureen since, man, it was during COVID. So Maureen is an amazing practitioner, and we'll talk about that so much because she's helped me with my Zen cosmetic acupuncture journey. But also she has her master's degree in oriental medicine and her bachelor's degree, a second bachelor's in nutrition, Amagda Kamlade from Midwest College of Oriental Medicine, practicing as a board-certified acupuncturist since 1997 and added board certification in Chinese herbal medicine in 2021. So very exciting to talk to you. I know your specialization is fertility, pregnancy, menopause, hormonal imbalance, things that all of our listeners really love to listen and learn about. And I'm sure they'll get a lot from this conversation as well. Um, and that you treat everything that acupuncture comes along with, especially with the herbs as well. Um, so I'm so, I'm so happy to have you here and I'm so happy to chat with you. And there's just um so much that we're going to uh talk about. So it's going, it's going to be a great conversation. Yeah. I'm thank you for having me, Lucky.

SPEAKER_03: 3:44

It's my honor.

SPEAKER_02: 3:45

Yeah, thanks. Thank you. And we'll give, we'll have all of Maureen McLaughlin's information at the end. So you have it in the show notes and you can contact her as you like. But what I've I found Maureen through my journey, which we'll talk about a little later in the conversation, of wanting to do a more natural method of um, you know, I don't even like to call it anti-aging, aging gracefully. I'm 44 and I've not done Botox or fillers, and I wanted to do something that was more on the um natural holistic side. And I did a myzen treatment with plan with Maureen. And that's how we met. And then we were that was in the Chicago area, and now I'm in northern Illinois, you're in Wisconsin, and now I I get to travel to you and beautiful area in Wisconsin to come see you now. Um but I I guess my question, because I guess we haven't really talked about it, what got you interested to even take this path of doing everything here in acupuncture, Chinese medicine?

SPEAKER_03: 4:43

Yeah, I love that question. Um, it's a just a big part of my life story. So in the 80s, um, I was living in San Francisco in the Bay Area with my now husband, and I was having a chronic health issue that Western medicine was not effectively treating. Um and someone out there, I think they, someone I shared this with about just how frustrated I was and how horrible this the situation was, um said to me, I still remember they were like, Well, have you tried Chinese medicine? And I remember thinking, Chinese medicine, what in the world is that? What do you have to do with that? Yeah, and then I've heard the word acupuncture. Acupuncture came to, you know, the United States in the 70s. Um, but growing up on the East Coast, it certainly wasn't common vernacular to talk about acupuncture and Chinese medicine. I don't remember anything about that until the 80s. And again, because California is so ahead of the was so ahead of the curb and all this stuff, um, I was pretty desperate. So I was like, sure, I'll give it a try. Why not? What do I have to lose? So I remember driving up to Berkeley, meeting my practitioner. Um, she's absolutely amazing. She practiced acupuncture and the herbal medicine. And two things happened. One, my health condition was cured. And the second thing was I fell in love with the medicine. Almost love at first sight. I I didn't even know. Oh my gosh. And when I walked into her office, I was just like, wow, what is this? And this is what it seemed to pull together many of my interests that I'd had since I was about 18 years old. Um and I just couldn't believe that people did that for a living and also just the way it made me feel. I I felt it had all these different components of things I was interested in doing. So I didn't end up studying it until about a decade later after having had children. Um, I went back to school. So it's kind of a oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_02: 6:56

That's that's an incredible that I mean that is incredible just to have that solve and heal what Western medicine wasn't doing, like getting down to the root cause and all of that. Did you feel immediate relief once you started since you hadn't done acupuncture before? Or was it because I know acupuncture can be the slow and steady that you need to commit to it to start to see things as much, or am I wrong?

SPEAKER_03: 7:23

Um, no, that is that's true to some extent. I mean, some people can have a truly profound healing experience with just acupuncture or at their first appointment, but usually it does take a little bit of time and commitment. The herbs are different, and back then I was actually brewing the raw herbs. I took home a little brown bag every day of or every appointment every week, and I brewed my herbal formula, which um I know it was interesting in in and of itself. And they taste very bitter, they're very strong tasting. Probably a lot of people would have trouble doing it, but I didn't. In any case, most of the herbs now are no longer dispensed in raw form because again, most people wouldn't be willing to drink that, how it tastes, you know.

SPEAKER_04: 8:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 8:12

Um very, very, very earthy and very bitter. Um, but the herbs now are in usually in granule form that you make into a tea or tincture form or even pill form. So um I I just find it very quickly, I'm gonna say within the first month of going weekly. And also because my insurance at the time fully covered it. I remember it was Blue Cross and Shield. I was able to go every week for a year. Wow, by insurance. That's incredible.

SPEAKER_02: 8:47

So between that and right. That's incredible that you were able to do that and have that as a compliment to whatever, but just having that be your journey and jumping in um, you know, to the whole experience with the herbs as well. That's why I'm sure you saw the results and it it happened for you so quickly. Um how do you feel? So when you oh, sorry.

SPEAKER_03: 9:14

One thing is that we once we took care of my chief complaint, we started to move down the list of other things that I had going on. And that's that's often how we do it is we take care of the most troublesome thing, and then we start moving to secondary problems or you know, things people don't even realize acupuncture can help with.

SPEAKER_02: 9:34

So with you meeting that um your practitioner in Berkeley, and then how you present yourself or show up and how you, your philosophy with your own clients, did you bring anything from that first practitioner you worked with? Or how what is your philosophy when working with clients?

SPEAKER_03: 9:55

Yeah, that's a good question. I think we had, I think she definitely had a strong impact on how I practice. Um, but each that's one of the cool things about Chinese medicine is every practitioner is going to make this medicine her own. So you will not get the exact same treatment from two different people, most likely. Um, they're not going to have widely different diagnoses, but they're going to just how they approach the medicine is very individualized. But she definitely had an impact on how I treat. Um and I think I would say the way I treat is um, I'm not, I'm not like a bossy practitioner. I like to meet people where they are at. Um, some people are ready to go all in, and at the first appointment, like I was, make tons of changes. Um and other people need it dispensed very gently. So, like you might say to them the first appointment, the simple suggestion of you need to drink more water. And so for them to even do that week one, to drink more water will be a really big deal for them. The other person might be able to, you know, start exercising a few times a week, take herbs every day, change their diet, do, you know, start meditating. And so that's kind of how you become a skilled practitioner is recognizing where the person is at and then working with them in a way that will, you know, something that becomes doable for them and not overwhelming. If you overwhelm someone, they're just gonna run away. It'll be too much. So you need to figure that out. That's why we do the initial intake, which is more in-depth, um and and take it from there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 11:48

Yeah. That yeah, that's meeting them where they are. I love that. That just helping them to be on their journey of their healing. Everyone's journey looks different, so that makes sense that every practitioner that's that's doing it would be different in their own approach, too. That yeah, makes complete sense.

SPEAKER_03: 12:06

And that's why I often said I may not be the right practitioner for you, you know, and no one is going to be the right practitioner for everyone. And you may find someone else works better for you. Who knows? Or if you don't have success with a certain practitioner, try a different one. A lot of this is just chemistry, too, between you and the patient.

SPEAKER_02: 12:26

So yeah, we are still human, right? We are still human having that human connection with someone.

SPEAKER_03: 12:33

I think that's true even for Western medicine. You can have, you can make a doctor recommendation to someone who you love, and they're like, ugh, I didn't like them, or didn't like her. It's like exactly figure it out ourselves sometimes too.

SPEAKER_02: 12:50

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. What what do you think, you know, is uh a misconception about acupuncture or or Chinese medicine that you think that you've heard many times or that you hope more you wish more people would uh understand?

SPEAKER_03: 13:06

Yeah, um I definitely think that, well, the the first thing that comes to mind is something pretty obvious, which is does it hurt? And a lot of people are very concerned that the needles hurt. And while there can be a slight sensation associated with a needle inserting the body, it's not like uh getting a shot or you know, a blood draw where they're using hypodermic needles. These are hair thin acupuncture needles that are very bendy, so they you know gently go into the tissues. It really doesn't hurt for the most part. Um, if you're extremely needle phobic, then I have to work with people very gently and slowly with those types of people. But you can almost get just about everyone comfortable with it if you approach it the right way. Um so first of all, it doesn't hurt. And secondly, I think that's like, no, it's not just placebo effect. Um, they know this, and a lot of the time people also get asked 25 plus years later at a party or something, well, does it work? And I'm just look at them like, well, I think so. Yeah, people pay me money and I don't think they would pay for something that doesn't work. Um and so, yes, it's not just placebo effect, and even if there is a placebo effect component, that doesn't really matter because there is with Western medicine as well. So um there's that. And then I think the other thing is just that people shouldn't save it as the last thing they try. They can try it as one of the first things they try for a health problem, unless it's obviously like an emergency or something very serious like cancer or something like this. But for a lot of ailments, you could try this medicine first rather than last. It's very effective, but it's often better at treating things than Western medicine is. Um, and uh we get good results almost all the time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 15:16

For sure. For sure.

SPEAKER_03: 15:20

And that I mean, those that could be wrong. Nothing has to be wrong to try Chinese medicine either. We actually like it when people come and they're like, I just want to, you know, and make sure I'm doing everything I can for my health. So nothing needs to be wrong for you to cope with Chinese medicine.

SPEAKER_02: 15:39

Yeah, you can start from feeling good to, you know, just have a good baseline and and feel great. And, you know, that that's that's wonderful. I I noticed on my j holistic journey when I started to do things like uh acupuncture and uh elimination diet and everything to find the things that were working for me and not working for me, I didn't realize that I wasn't, I didn't feel good until I removed the thing that was making me feel horrible. So for instance, I was eating things that were my body wasn't tolerant of, um, such as like eggs and potatoes. Those were things that I was eating all the time almost. I thought it was a very healthy breakfast, but my body was rejecting it and it caused inflammation. And when I found out that that caused inflammation and I eliminated it, I started to feel, I didn't realize that's how good I could feel. So I feel like that with acupuncture too. Maybe you feel good already and you go and you don't realize I could actually feel so much better. This isn't my baseline, it could be so much better.

SPEAKER_03: 16:39

Oh my gosh, yes. I was just discussing that with the patient this morning, as a matter of fact. She yeah, really? Yeah, she's been coming. And and um, I think today was just her third treatment. But she's like, is it possible this thing that I ate is just suddenly disagreed with me? And I'm like, absolutely, because your body is more you know in tune right now and more sensitive. So it's going to possibly rebel against a certain thing that you've been doing because it wants it wants to find the the things that are working for you that should be working for you and not against you.

SPEAKER_02: 17:17

Wow. Wow, wow. Maybe that's why I got all these allergies because I started doing more balancing of my tea and everything. So now I now all these things that I used to eat don't work anymore.

SPEAKER_03: 17:28

Yeah, that's just sort of like something that can happen when you're coming for treatment, is there's just a lot of things that you don't expect. Not negative things, positive things, but things will, it's like an onion, and you just start peeling away the layers. And um, it'll it's it's like a framework to work in within to um sort of reveal and expose some of these things and get you in better attunement with your body, mind, and spirit.

SPEAKER_02: 17:57

So yeah, yeah. Just thinking of that, when you see um, I would imagine, you know, we obviously we're all living this modern life, especially women juggling work, family expectations, and this is coming around, coming out around the holiday season when it's a lot of seeing family and and managing that all of that and all of the schedules throughout the end of the year. Uh what how do you see like energy imbalances showing up? Like whenever like can you walk me through what what um the bless you, what the for what the how it goes for you to maybe meet someone for the first time or just check in with them a little bit about, because we've talked about, you know, my pulse rate. You've talked about that before, but there's several, right? Like what, like how do you look for those imbalances that show up um when someone comes in?

SPEAKER_03: 18:50

Yeah, so I guess that's a two-part question. One is how do we diagnose someone or evaluate someone, and then what to do about like the holidays that are approaching to stay balanced? So I'll start with maybe the first part. The way we um come up with our diagnosis in Chinese medicine, and the terms that we use are very, very different than anything a lot of people have ever heard before. It might be something like you have um dampness in your spleen, you have deficient qi in your lungs, you have stagnant qi in your lung, in your liver, you have you know damp heat in your gallbladder. Uh, these terms are what we go to school for a long time for. Um they yeah, these are the pathologies that the tongue and the pulse show us, then we know what points to needle and what herbs to prescribe. So the way we diagnose someone is we do the intake, that's the uh we fill out forms, that's the verbal part where the patient tells you about her experiences in her body. Um, and then we look at the tongue and we feel the pulses. And there are on the right side and the left side the radial pulse. There are our three positions, shallow and deep on both sides that represent the energy in the meridians. Um once we come up with that, um, we we'd observe that and write down what we're feeling and what we're seeing and what the patient has told me, and come up with our diagnosis. Again, then we we know what our treatment strategy is going to be. Um yeah, so I don't know. I'm sorry, Douglas I tracked there in my brain.

SPEAKER_02: 20:36

No, that's so helpful.

SPEAKER_03: 20:39

Yeah. So what with regard to the tongue, the way I describe it to people is that it's a way of viewing the status of the internal organs because it's the only thing that is inside that can be portrayed and observed, right? So it's like looking at your liver or looking at your heart or looking at an organ. And believe it or not, tongue, you know, old-fashioned doctors used to look at your tongue in, you know, this country, even European medicine. But we look at the shape of the tongue, we look at the color of the tongue, we look at the coating of the tongue, and that tells us what's going on with the internal organs. And then with the pulses, that tells us the energy. We also we do look at things like it's not just the pulse rate like it is in Western medicine. Is it fast or slow or how many beats per minute? But we're looking at um the quality of it. Does it feel wiry like a guitar string? Does it feel rolling like there's a term like pearls in a porcelain basin where you're taking your hand and just rolling them around? That's slippery pulse. Um, is it choppy, like cutting bamboo? That tells us something else. So that's the type of thing that we're really looking for. Yeah. Takes a long time to learn. It's very complicated.

SPEAKER_02: 22:01

Oh, I'm sure. Yeah. That is that sounds super complicated. Wow. So having that, you know, the intake learning. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 22:10

But on the other hand, it simplifies. So we can talk about that later, how it simplifies things.

SPEAKER_02: 22:15

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It simplifies things. You you learn ever all of these things. All of those terms, they sound, they they really resonate with me what you were saying, the terms that uh the stagnant she or the damp this, et cetera. That sounded really, you know, it made sense in my body when you were saying it. Um, so I I I that's so it's so interesting. So we're doing, you do the intake, you pulses, the tongue, et cetera, you do your treatment. Um, you know, going back to, you know, just seeing like the modern stressors are there are are there more modern stressors you see that are norm, like that are regular, normal. Um, you know, we're going into like I mentioned, you know, the holiday season. And how like how are you seeing like energy imbalances showing up in in modern life, I guess, with women?

SPEAKER_03: 23:09

Yeah, very good question. Um, you know, so many a lot of women are working and trying to juggle work and family. Um, and that takes a toll for sure. Um so you'll see things like a woman is chronically fatigued, but then when you actually ask her how many hours is she's sleeping at night, she might be sleeping like five or six hours a night because she's trying to go to work, deal with kids, homework, laundry, dinner, you know, the fast-paced of modern life, doesn't have time to take care of herself. And so, of course, she's chronically fatigued, right? Because five to six hours of sleep is not enough sleep for anyone. And so, you know, sometimes women just need permission to be told, you need eight hours of sleep. That's our starting point. I need you to get into bed at nine o'clock. I don't care how messy your house is, you know. You prioritize yourself. You cannot pour from an empty cup. So again, it's just coming back to that idea of you have to prioritize, and that could, you know, your self-care has to come first, not last. And acupuncture can be part of that, and and all the things that I recommend. If nothing else, you're gonna come and have an amazing nap every week on the table. Exactly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 24:43

Yeah. And we we you talked about qi a little bit, so I just want to go back a little bit for our listeners that don't know the term qi. Can you explain that a bit and and how it relates to um the acupuncture that you do?

SPEAKER_03: 24:56

Yeah, sure. Um, so qi is just in most simplistic terms, it's just energy. And all living things have qi. Um, it's it's what makes us free. That what's it's what makes our heart beat, right? Um without energy, we don't have life. Um and so it is a pathway, there's energy pathways in the body that flow along these meridians. And so when people come for acupuncture, we're needling points on these energy pathways, and we're often looking to either disperse stagnant qi or to bring qi to a point where the energy is deficient. So and we can feel that we'll touch a point on a meridian, whether it's sort of stagnant or too full, um, or if it's deficient. You can think of a river that has like might have a like blockage in it, you know, or um might have, you know, a log in the middle of it, right? Creating kind of a blockage. And so we're looking to remove all of the blockages so that the energy can flow freely and in a balanced manner around the body from head to toe, internal, external.

SPEAKER_02: 26:17

Yeah, got it, got it. And are there speci I guess everyone's different, but have you noticed um, you know, specific areas? I know you mentioned as, you know, a diagnosis or however we want you to call like what they're coming in with as their main complaint or how they feel. Um, but have you noticed, you know, just in, yeah, we have so much going on. We have EMF, we have everything, like everything's getting thrown at us from the modern society. Do you notice certain things that like the it's it's a lot of times the liver, or it's a lot of times like, is there is there ever a commonality kind of across, or is it always different between everyone?

SPEAKER_03: 26:55

Well, just to make just to make a generalization, it certainly does seem over the course of my lifetime of the last 25 plus years I've been practicing that menstrual issues are becoming more and more, you know, of an issue. Um and I don't know if that's endocrine disruption, or I'm sure that plays a big role in this endocrine disruption from microplastics and stuff. So Chinese medicine doesn't ignore that either. We look at all of these types of things that could be having an effect, right? Um but also a lot of women, it starts like early because of like eating milk laced with hormones, and then she's having severe menstrual cramping, and then she's being put on the birth control pill to control all of that. And then she's, you know, grows up, meets someone, wants to have a family, goes off the pill, and bam, no period, you know, or her cycle is completely messed up and she's now having trouble getting pregnant. So I see it a lot. Um, and I'm not saying there's not a time and a place for the birth control pill or whatnot. It's not coming from any kind of judgment perspective about that. It's just more that it I just think shutting the reproductive system down is just can have very serious repercussions. And so we often find ourselves in the position of having to sort of backtrack and unwind all of that and fix it again so that she can go on to have normal periods and hopefully become pregnant. If that's what she's trying to do.

SPEAKER_02: 28:32

Yeah. So that so I wanted to talk to you about this. Your, because you've done so much with um fertility, pregnancy, post-mortem, post-mortem partum support. And I'd I'd love for you to just explain a little bit. I know you just did, but a little bit about what that means, what that is it primarily just the focus of getting the qi aligned um all the way to flow so that the channels are all open so that conception can happen easier. Is it a mix of that with, you know, making sure that does that do what you're saying for the cycle to make it? You know, just talk to me a little bit about what you do to help support someone on their fertility journey.

SPEAKER_03: 29:13

Yeah, sure. That's um, and that's just a specialization I happen to fall into, by the way. Back in 1907, I don't think there even existed like a body of work on um on uh fertility in Chinese medicine. It really didn't exist. And I think reproductive endocrinology was only kind of really becoming a thing as well, where people were doing IBF and IUIs, etc. In any case, I stumbled into it because I started to have just really good luck with women who were either trying to get pregnant on their own and and had been having trouble, or they were doing IBF and IUI and they added in the acupuncture in Chinese medicine and it worked. So, and then it sort of knew. The news spread because women who or couples, this shouldn't just this is not just about women, but couples who are trying to have a child or women who were trying to have a child, um, it's they're they're just warriors, you know, and they will leave no stone unturned. And it became a very big deal to incorporate Chinese medicine and acupuncture into your process. So um when a woman presents with that issue going on, it's really a question of is she trying to get pregnant naturally or is she trying to combine it with reproductive endocrinology? We work a little bit differently depending on the situation, but any and all of the above is fine. If she's trying to get pregnant naturally, she could take herbal medicine. And it could be, it really depends on what the problem is. Some women may not be menstruating. So our first goal is to what we call nourish her blood and get her blood stronger so that she starts having a cycle again. Um, or she could be having severe cramps or something like fibroids or endometriosis, which is more um blood stagnation in Chinese medicine. So then we're our treatment strategy is different. We're going to try and break up that stagnant blood. Um so that's something that her her Western diagnosis is helpful, but her tongue and pulse will be very helpful. And we will work like every, I have women come every phase of the cycle, like follicular, ovulation, luteal menstruation. And we work in a parallel fashion to what the body is doing. So, you know, we're trying, let's say ovulation, we're just trying to trigger the ovaries to release a follicle so she can be pregnant, right? Um you wouldn't be like moving stuff around as much after that phase of the cycle because she could be pregnant, in which case we need to be more careful because we don't want to be moving things all around. Um so yeah, that's that's a big topic. So hopefully just touched on it likely, is yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 32:02

No, that's that's I that's so so helpful. I've definitely had friends um that have had have done that that were having um difficulties getting pregnant and acupuncture really working with someone helped them immediately. One of my best friends that happened and for her. So it's it's definitely something that uh I I believe like intuitively, I feel it's you know a lot to do with that flow of the qi and the energy and the stagnation, and then having all those layers like for someone to help you. And like your you said before, given permission to just you know, almost be and be feminine and receive, like you're receiving what that that's like from that perspective, you're receiving to be a mom. So having an acupuncturist give you that permission to receive, and we're gonna do these things, and we're gonna support you and help you and just being receiving mode. And that also feels, yeah, that that's such a beautiful, beautiful support to do that as well.

SPEAKER_03: 33:01

Yeah, what about yeah, going back to like how busy women are, and a lot of you know, women are working, that's very young, that activity. So they do need to get more in tune with the yin, the receptives, in order to conceive often. And so I just want to briefly say too that we use acupuncture, we use max subbustion, which is burning an herb over acupuncture points. We're not burning the points, but we're burning an herb over the point to warm it. We might do heat lamp therapy. Um, I might do low-level laser light therapy. So there's a lot of different things that we have in our toolbox. And oh, there isn't one way we would approach it. Again, it would depend on her intake and chung it falls and what is going on, how we would help her get pregnant. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 33:51

Yeah, that's that what a beautiful thing that you help and you support others with. That that's just I'm just I'm sure it's touching just to know how many women you've helped with this journey, with it being just such a niche that you have that you've been doing this. It's amazing. Yeah, thank you.

SPEAKER_03: 34:06

That's an amazing aspect of work.

unknown: 34:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 34:09

Oh, for sure. I'm I'm absolutely sure. I'm sure. Well what about with uh women that are moving into menopause or moving out of paramenopause? How does acupuncture help help them? Do you help like, does it some kind of the similar same thing, just helping with the qi and alignment, or is it something completely different? Because I know I have friends right now that are moving into that paramenopause and and menopause stage. Um, and I'd love to hear how acupuncture can help with that as well.

SPEAKER_03: 34:36

Yeah, that's um something that is really great to treat because it's something that, and I've been through it myself, which is helpful because I have the long view now, but we don't talk about it enough. Um what a big change it is for the woman. And um there, the hesitancy to have women be on hormone replacement, you know, now we have to find different ways to help women feel better because it's while it has some, there's some good things about it, there's also some hard things about it, right? It's a big change and a woman it needs to be supported through it. And almost always can be herbally, almost always that will work enough that she doesn't need to do hormone replacement therapy. Um, she can if she wants to for a window of time, but they definitely don't keep women on it for years and years like they used to. They know that, you know, led to cancer, breast cancers that we have now. But our so you're if you think about it, I mean, you're supposed to stop menstruating at a certain point. That's not unnatural. And our hormones are going to decline. We're not going to stay, you know, in the fountain of youth forever. But the question becomes how do we manage that so she can still feel healthy and vibrant? She may not feel like she did when she was 20 or 30, but she can feel, she should still feel healthy and vibrant.

SPEAKER_02: 36:04

Yeah. Yeah, that's such a good point on the on the hormones, um, looking at it from the natural, the natural part of it. And how can you and I I the herbs that you're using too, it's just it's so fascinating and and so so such a compliment. I love that you added that to what you're doing because it's such a a compliment to someone's health journey um through this holistic method to you know commit to doing an herb to help support them. And as I what I didn't even think of it for this menopause, paramenopause stage that um we can go to and through as women and how that can can herbs help support like hot flashes and mood swings for menopause and paramenopause. That's what my friends and I have been talking about.

SPEAKER_03: 36:47

Oh, big time. Big time. They're extremely effective for that stuff. And also, I use some western supplements as well with my nutrition degree and my background in that. So it could be um dietary recommendations, supplement recommendations, Chinese herbal recommendations. The big problems are generally speaking, you know, hot flashing is probably the hugest. Um, and then insomnia and often is a result of hot flashing and night sweats, um, and the increased anxiety, even in women that have never had anxiety before, find themselves feeling extremely anxious. Um libido is another big one where women are like, gosh, you know, I'm 50 and I feel like my life is over that way. And so these are all things that can be helped. You don't need to live like that.

SPEAKER_02: 37:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 37:41

Um they can definitely again permission.

SPEAKER_02: 37:44

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's that's great. I so we talked about, you know, the holistic health and everything. I want to move to how I found you through my Zen Acupuncture. How did you start with that? Because it's it's such a specific. I really sought you out when I looked it up because I was looking for this specific acupuncture and I was reading up about it, and I was finding it, and I was so intrigued by it. And I was looking everywhere in Chicago, which Chicago is huge, and I found you. And there was, you know, hardly anyone that was doing it. And that's how I'm so happenstance we got to meet each other, which I'm so happy that we connected in that way. And I think 2021. But how what got you interested? And how did you get involved in in this part of it, the cosmetic side?

SPEAKER_03: 38:33

Yeah, so as practitioners, we are required to have like 60 continuing ed units every four years. Um and so, you know, there's different offerings, and it's sort of like depends what you're drawn to. But I remember when it first became a thing and I read about it, it was around the same time that I needed more continuing education units to um get my board recertified and my state license relicensed, right? Anyway, I just remember thinking, wow, that is super cool. Wonder what that is all about. Because a lot of women were doing O Talks or whatnot. And um, when I read about it, I thought, well, that's very that's really intriguing. And I think I was also perimenopausal and maybe starting to notice some wrinkles and sagging or whatnot, like everybody does. But I thought, well, that would be really interesting to experience. So I did the training and and then I got certified in the technique, which was some additional training, and I've been doing that since um 2008, I believe. And so even that technique, the maison technique, I've perfected over the years. I've actually done a couple of other methods of cosmetic acupuncture because that's not the only technique. There's some other techniques, and I've done those trainings as well. So I tend to blend them together and also bring in my own art background, which I have from college. I have a fine art background. So I look at the trees and I just kind of sculpt it with the needles, and um that's how I discovered it, and then I did it on myself, and I was very happy with the results. Um and yeah, and it it just was it's just was something that that took off.

SPEAKER_02: 40:28

Yeah, it's I for for me, I started coming to you and you um, you know, you have to commit to the the process, you know. Two I came two times a week for that was a while ago. I can't we could I would love to hear what what the process can be, what the timing is so our listeners know. Um, but you commit to the process and whenever I when I was going, I saw results within the first or second time, just of the the lift and the plumpness and everything that that that was it was working. Uh what is a like how many sessions does a client need and what does maintenance look like? What does it look like to like start that journey of the cosmetic acupuncture?

SPEAKER_03: 41:08

Yeah. Um, so I would say that most women contact me. I have done some women in their 30s, but it's usually more 40s, 50s, 60s, and uh. I mean that a lot of it's in their 80s. Yeah. So I love it. Got adults too. Yeah. Um oh gosh, I'm sorry. What was your original question? The Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 41:32

So how many sessions does someone need? Like what do they want?

SPEAKER_03: 41:34

Yeah. So the the treatment course is 10 treatments. Um, and it can either be done twice a week for five weeks if you want to hurry or fast track, or you can do once a week for 10 weeks. And I've come to the one time a week for 10 weeks on my own because, first of all, some women need that schedule financially, right? To pay for it. And so I found there was no difference in the end result. So and then after you're done your treatment course, you do need to come for maintenance. So that's gonna be either every month. Um, and my age, I really find I need it every month. But for many, many years I got away with every six to eight weeks for my maintenance treatment. Um, but most women are ready to come anyway because you get body movements as well, so it's not just the face, so it's just a very relaxing treatment. Um and that's kind of they say that you have to repeat the treatment course at some point. I have the luxury of being able to repeat it because I am to do it on myself, but I haven't seen any clients that have never repeated the original treatment course and are still doing great. Others have maybe after 10 years gone back to the 10 treatment course again to kind of really do an intensive, you know, reboot of the original result. So yeah, it's up to the woman to really what she can wants to do and can do.

SPEAKER_02: 43:00

Yeah. Okay. Um, and then from like an acupuncture standpoint, is it actually lifting and plumping? Like what is it, like what's actually happening like um physiologically or energetically when you're putting that many needles in the face for this uh this treatment?

SPEAKER_03: 43:20

Yeah, there's there's kind of two explanations. One is a more Western bioscience type explanation, and the this involves the insertion of many, many needles in the face, and Nikki knows because she's had it, but it goes fast, and they're yes, it does. Um, and these needles cause like micro trauma, and then elastin and collagen go there, and so collagen is kind of the scaffolding of the skin, and elastin makes the skin firm and flexible. And then beyond that, what you're doing also is you're tonifying the underlying musculature, and um you're you that's where the lifting comes in, and that gives you that result. The plumping, I think, belief comes from, in my opinion, you're sending your increasing blood flow there. So when the person lies flat on the table and gets has this treatment, you have this is why you have the body needles because you're trying to generate blood and qi that will be sent to the face. Yes. This is why we don't treat just the face and like treat it, you know. And this is the mistake they make with say in Western medicine where the face is is like separate. It's not separate, it's part of the whole body. So we have to treat the whole body to have the face look radiant.

SPEAKER_02: 44:43

Yes, yeah, absolutely. I really enjoy the treatment because I don't know how many needles you put in my face. I don't count, there's so many, but it feels it feels great. Uh, and then that plus the needles that are throughout my body for digestion or anything additional that I might need, like maybe my digestion's not great that week, or I feel bloated or fatigued or whatever. And we can talk through it of what additional the body work can be that you do. I think it really it does create such a relaxing environment. And you've been using the Soluma right laser or like the um that light over too, which has really increased my results, I've thought too.

SPEAKER_03: 45:20

Oh yeah, that's just been huge. That um I arched that device over a person's um face during the treatment and it flashes, but you keep your eyes closed and it's not disturbing. It's very actually most people find it extremely relaxing. Very relaxing. Yeah. Combination of red light and blue light, and it's an FDA FDA approved device. And um, that has really because that does the same, that's an additional layer of does the same sort of thing where it rejuvenates the cells and it um increases elastin and collagen, so and decreases the plumagemia.

SPEAKER_02: 46:01

So double doubles down. Yeah, you get two treatments in one. Exactly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 46:08

Is then there uh people are afraid of needles who can just come and get the Soloma if they wanted to. You can use that device come in for a session with just the device.

SPEAKER_02: 46:21

Oh, great. That's great, great to know. Uh, are there any conditions or situations someone a woman might be experiencing where you'd advise them not to have this treatment? The cosmetic.

SPEAKER_03: 46:31

Um, yeah, there are a few things regarding that. One is, well, we screen for that. Um, if a woman isn't well, I say let's take care of your health first. Let's get you in good health. You won't respond as well if you're not in good health. Um and then it's contraindicated for pregnancy, during pregnancy, it's contraindicated if you have cancer, uh, if you have uncontrolled hypertension or migraines, it's contraindicated because there's just too many needles that's pulling energy up to the head. And if you have migraines, it's gonna increase blood flow, it's gonna make your migraines work. And if you have controlled hypertension, the same thing, just too much, too much going on up there. So we have to pair those things first, but then we can, you know, often there's women who finish cancer treatment and it's like a gift they want to give themselves, and it's a great way once they're in the clear, to like feel good about themselves again, you know, like a just wonderful self-care. And I think I I you know it's important to say to the listeners that this is not a technique that's going to give you a facelift look in the same way, it's not gonna give you duck lifts, you know, it's it does turn the clock back, but it's not if you're 60, it's not gonna make you look like you're 20. It's going to make you look like, you know, a younger version of yourself, but an amazing version of yourself. So like a beautiful 60-year-old instead of like an old tired 60-year-old.

unknown: 48:03

Yes.

SPEAKER_02: 48:03

So exactly the natural, the natural progression, the aging gracefully. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 48:08

Yeah. Yeah. And I do show people before and afters, and there are people for whom the effect is not enough. And then I'm very honest with them. I'm like, I don't think what I do is going to be enough for you. I think you actually, you know, should look into like a find a really good plastic surgeon. And I will say that we can do both together carefully. I mean, I have had patients that are doing Botox and Maisan, but I just need to know where you have the Botox because I then avoid that area. But often, women, if they do mais first, it gives you a palette where you're more able to see, hone in on what is the little thing that's still bothering you, and then maybe just have that one thing worked on instead of all this different stuff, you know.

SPEAKER_02: 48:53

Yeah. Like if you're you feel like your under eyes or your lines around your smile lines or your crows or something like that, that could be the focus more so exactly.

SPEAKER_03: 49:03

And then you can just go take care of that one little spot that's bugging you, you know. Yeah. What happens on I believe what happens with plastic surgery or even like uh um, you know, aesthetics is just you do one area and then you start feeling bad about this thing, and then you start feeling bad about the next thing. And before you know it, you know, you're you're paying all this money to have Botox, fillers, you know, surgical procedures. And really, I think if you do maisagne, you you can see like I I'm pretty happy with how I look, actually, you know.

SPEAKER_02: 49:36

Yeah, you look incredible. It's uh it's to me, I I'm 44. I don't need to look 20. I want to look like a healthy, happy, like, you know, like that. I have my wisdom. My wisdom is here. I've been smiling my whole life and laughing my whole life. So I have these lines and it's it's fine. But I want to have, yeah, that I that blood flow is going through my face and and I feel um, you know, plump and and radiant when when I can, like how I can get there. Um that's why I've not I've not done and also I'm natural. And we've we've talked about you know Botox um to a to an extent. I I do most things natural. Um the only thing I don't do natural is my sinuses, and I take Pseudofed now and then for my sinuses, which I'm trying to find a natural alternative, and I'll talk to you about herbs maybe for that. But but I do I do everything, yeah, I I do everything natural, and I can't imagine putting, and no judgment to anyone who does. I uh most women that I know that are my age or even 10 years younger are doing it. Uh, but for me, for my personal journey, it just didn't, um it just doesn't sit right. Like I like we, you know, we're both in similar professions, so I can I can drop something in my body and feel if it feels like a yes or a no. And and just Botox feels like like a no to me. And the cosmetic acupuncture feels like a hell yes. Like it feels like yes, this is this is aligning me with my like longevity, my holistic wellness and in the way that I want to feel and and look.

unknown: 51:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 51:03

And it's also want to say it's it's side effect free. There's yeah, almost no risk at all. I mean, if you know, with Botox, there are risks. And this is a risk-free, you know, the worst thing that's gonna happen is you're gonna get a little bruise, you know? Mm-hmm. Other than that, it's extremely safe. So I think that's important. Yeah. Technically, as expensive as cosmetics is either.

SPEAKER_02: 51:30

No, for sure. And it's relaxing. I get to lay there for however long, an hour and meditate and just relax. Have have you noticed, because you've been doing this since the 90s, have you noticed an increase, um, an increased interest in uh doing more of the natural holistic beauty approaches? You, you know, do you use herbs for that too? Like have you noticed anything it being more um popular like over the last like decade or even sooner?

SPEAKER_03: 51:58

I think there there is, because I feel like um, you know, people are really craving um alternative medicine for one thing. Um and there's a lot of you know, the Pamela Anderson popularizing the no makeup, makeup look. There's definitely, I think, a trend toward women wanting to look more naturally beautiful rather than super made up or artificial. Uh so I feel there's a a market for it. And it's I just think the word isn't totally out on it yet, but it's getting there. You know, a lot of a lot of celebrities do do use it, do cosmetic acupuncture. Um and you can have like one session before a wedding, let's say you will get a result, but you won't get a permanent result unless you do the treatment course because that's a collagen um deconstruction reconstruction cycle, those five to ten weeks. So that's where the result is more permanent. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 52:57

Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. That's that's great. Uh yeah, it's um from from my journey and everything, I I noticed that when I started to pull the layers back and do kind of the, you know, as cheesy it sounds, inner work and healing and finding my triggers and loving myself. I felt more beautiful. Like I didn't need to add a lot of extra things to try to feel beautiful, like the like the Pamela Pamela Anderson, how she's going without makeup and and living in that way. Um and I I think that we're I think that we're moving into, not saying that we don't have to all wear makeup or perfume and feel feminine and everything like that, but I think we're moving into a way of just being having that permission to feel feminine and feel pretty and and feel proud of who we are and love ourselves and that radiates, that that comes from that shines through our skin and that shows us that, you know, we're beautiful from the inside out. So I think that's a big part of the journey too. Like we can inject ourselves with a lot of things, but if we don't love ourselves, it's not going to, we're still not gonna feel like it's enough, like you're saying, like with your some of your clients.

SPEAKER_03: 54:01

That's right. That's a really, really good way of putting it. We have to inject ourselves with love, right?

SPEAKER_02: 54:07

Inject ourselves with love. It's yeah, for us, exactly.

SPEAKER_03: 54:10

Yeah. In that one of the therapies that could just really help you do that. It just can help you change and transform from the inside out. And that's also like what Maisan is it's from the inside out.

SPEAKER_02: 54:23

Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's it's from it's from the inside out. I I found that, you know, whenever I I was having any times where I was having breakouts or anything and just looking at different areas of the body on the face map of what could actually be impacting that. I exactly like our skin is our biggest organ, so it's going to show what's going on inside of us. And the first uh way we see that is our face. Like that's everyone sees that for the most part. So they're gonna see what's going on internally. Yeah. Yeah. Um, well, this this is this has been great. Is there anything that we haven't touched on that you think, you know, as an acupuncturist and herb, like, you know, everything you've done with herbs and acupuncture and all of your 25 plus years of um experience that you'd like to touch on, just so our listeners can know a little bit more or anything else that we haven't talked about?

SPEAKER_03: 55:18

Um, I think just real quick, I'll give a little holiday advice since we talked about that earlier. So, what I tell my patients is I always sit in my office and I say, I want to hear you say no. No, I cannot do that. Practice playing no, even over the holidays. Don't overbook yourself, don't lower your self-care, actually up your game in terms of your self-care. Keep your acupuncture appointments, drink your water, squeeze in the exercises, exercise sessions, but let yourself have some treats and don't be rigid, you know. That's what the holidays are all about, is in enjoying yourself and experiencing the love of your family and friends and everything, but and the joy of the season. But, you know, you don't have to go completely off the rails. So in the because you don't want to feel, you know, horrible in the new year and then have to make all these big resolutions. So just kind of keep yourself as steady as you can. And that might mean saying no to some obligations and watching sugar, especially, and taking your herbs so that it's gonna help them when I get sick.

unknown: 56:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 56:29

Those are my recommendations for that.

SPEAKER_02: 56:31

Yes, yeah, that's saying no. What a what a skill as a woman to say no to something that we know won't serve us or that we don't have time for, but we try to make it work. Yeah, having permission to say no.

SPEAKER_03: 56:44

Yeah, yeah. So I'd be careful because it can start with the Halloween candy and go, you know, straight through February. So you could still have a really good holiday season and take care of yourself at the same time. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 57:02

Yeah, balancing that out. Right.

SPEAKER_03: 57:06

Staying balanced so you can feel good.

SPEAKER_02: 57:09

Yeah, exactly. Staying, yeah, staying balanced so you can serve others and and uh I like what you said about upping the self-care, not not pulling it back because you're too busy from the holidays and from whatever's going on, upping it, carving out time to have your your self-care, not feeling guilty about it, just you know, sprinkling it in, whatever that might be. Maybe it's waking up early and going on a walk and that you just know that maybe getting out of bed early is the painful part. But once you're outside and you walk, you feel great, you know? These little things that can help you. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 57:40

We have to remember that there's strong emotions at the holiday time too. There's grief, there's stress, there's, you know, anger. I mean, because people are dealing with all kinds of things with, you know, getting together with family members or having family members missing. So we need to remember to take good care of ourselves.

SPEAKER_02: 57:59

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, the theme, the theme of us chatting, just take good care of yourself. Definitely. Well, uh, Maureen, how can our listeners find you? Uh, tell us a bit about your practice, where you're located, and we'll put your information in the show notes so they can contact you.

SPEAKER_03: 58:19

Oh gosh, thank you so much. So I practiced in Illinois for many years, but we now live up in Madison, Wisconsin area, in Stoughton specifically, which is a small town southeast of Madison, uh, about two hours from Chicago, I think. And so I have my office in Silverado Wellness Center here, and I have a website, Yahara River Acupuncture. Um, my practice is actually Yahara River Acupuncture and Chinese herbal medicine in Stoughton, Wisconsin. So you can find me by Googling, you can find my website that way. You can call me, and I think you're gonna put that number there. Yeah, you can email me. I'm always happy to talk if anyone has any questions. I can't do acupuncture remotely, obviously, but I can do herbal medicine remotely via telehealth.

SPEAKER_02: 59:13

So that's a great, great reminder that you can do that via telehealth. Very smart.

SPEAKER_03: 59:19

And then I can have the herbs drop shipped to the person. That's how I do that. So that's great.

SPEAKER_02: 59:24

That's great as well. Wonderful. And Madison's beautiful. So you, who if anyone comes to visit you, they can come see Madison. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Wonderful. Well, thank you for your time, Maureen. This has been such a fun conversation just to talk about the journey of acupuncture, how it can help. So many, a variety. I'm sure we skim just the basic surface. We can go so much deeper onto the ways and feels and everything that it could do for your body. Um, but if you know you want to learn more, you can contact Maureen directly. All of her information is here. And thank You listeners for staying until the end and showing your commitment to your self-care and your healing journey. And we always love having you here and being a part of our journey. Thanks, Maureen. Um, and we'll see everyone in the next episode. Yeah, thank you.

SPEAKER_03: 1:00:14

Thank you, Mikey. Bye bye, everyone.

SPEAKER_00: 1:00:28

Thank you so much for spending time with us on the Modern Zen Collective Podcast. This podcast is at the heart of everything that we do, created to guide, inspire, and walk alongside you on your journey. If you're ready for more, explore our Practitioner Collective, a trusted resource of experts in healing and wellness to help you deepen your practice or fast track transformation. And be sure to join our email community to get first access to new offerings, challenges, and exclusive wisdom. You'll find all the links in the show notes. And until next time, keep trusting your path and honoring your unfolding.